The Coffee Lounge
Discussion by wearers and lovers of nylons and traditional feminine apparelNote: this conversation runs backwards! For the benefit of regular readers, the most recent contributions are placed at the top.
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At the FairWe approached the ramp with the air jets, we were following two married couples. The ramp was built with narrow flat spaces for your feet and wood rising between the flat spaces so you couldn't keep your legs together. The husbands held back and encouraged the first wife to walk up the ramp. She was wearing a smart gray checked dress, and to keep from tripping on the wooden ridge, she held onto the railings on either side of the ramp. She had only taken a few steps when the air jets sent her skirt flying skyward and I had my first look at some truly elegant undies: her slip was purest white nylon with deep lace and nylon trim at the hem, her stockings were full fashioned and tightly gartered 3/4 of the way up her thighs, and her panties were white nylon, wide legged, with a beautiful red rose print and lace at the hems. I was dazzled by the delicacy and precision of it all, and when it was my turn to lose control of my skirt I was more than a little embarrassed at the pale green cotton Spanky Pants that were revealed. A few years later, when I got out of school and started working in a shop, I took my first paycheck and went out and bought myself some full fashioned nylons, a smart white garter belt, and two pairs of rayon, rose print panties. I couldn't afford the best, so rayon it was, and they certainly felt more feminine that my cheap cotton panties. Unfortunately, I wore my rose colored delights every day and when the elastic began to fray, I started holding them up with a safety pin. You guessed it. One day as I was walking with my boyfriend, the safety pin popped open and before I could think what to do, my ankles were festooned with red roses. I'm sure my expression matched those of the Pettes in your pinups, but fortunately there was no wind threatening to lift my skirt. (I was prepared: I had on my full fashioned nylons) After struggling out of my errant panties, to the amusement of several onlookers, I vowed to keep my undies in better repair. This has gone on longer than I expected, but I would be eager to hear others experiences and have a number I could share at a later date.
Rude Bits?The suggestion that ladies should not understand Latin because of the "rude bits" is surely misconceived.
1) There are more rude bits even in pre-eclipse English than there are in Latin;
2) The "rude bits" form a small part of the total Latin corpus;
3) Most of the "rude bits" are suggestively erotic rather than rude;
4) Suggestive eroticism is surely to be encouraged. It is all too rare now.
"Vilia miretur vulgus" (Let the tawdry tittilate the common masses - Ovid) shows a disdain for much of the "modern" day which sould be admired. Venus did, after all, wear a girdle. It is scarcely to be imagined that she would have been seen dead (not that Gods die) in a pair of tights.
We were not thinking of the rude bits in the Latin corpus, so much as the fact that when a scholarly gentlemen writes a book, when he comes to the mention of a - well - bodily part or an activity that might be questionable, he invariably uses a Latin phrase to spare maidenly blushes. And I am always glad that he has and that I do not understand it.
However, what would you recommend to an unlearned young lady by way of edifying reading?By the bye, we understand that Hippolyte wore a girdle too, until somebody made off with it.
Stocking MemoriesI've just read the entire site---whew!!!---and it has brought back my childhood. My father was (and still is) a oanty hose wholesaler, and I spent my younger years surrounded by the garage...and often half the house full of various items of lingerie.Just a comment on the disappearance of the traditional method of manufacturing stockings. Unfortunately, as you may be aware, many of the better companies, some of which were still manufacturing into the late 70s and early 80s fell victim to the abuse of company directors, many of whom were more interested in bringing in cheaply machined Italian imports, rather than stockings machined in the British tradition. That is, of course beside the point.
My father always kept a box of left-overs, and when I was about 14 or so and just beginning to wear fine hosiery, I came upon this box, which included quite old boxes of traditional nylons...fine denier stockings, fishnets (all with seams) and some really quite fine articles. Needless to say I wore the lot out!
Here was the problem I encountered then (and still now). Suspenders. Well, girls, I like all of you have suffered the indignity of cheap suspenders that I suspect were manufactured for shop windows rather than everyday wear. They seem to be quite hard to come accross these days. Perhaps if better quality suspenders were available there would be more women wearing good stockings, which are, I firmly believe, FAR more comfortable than these awful tights (my father refuses steadfast to agree...though I am quite sure he has never worn a pair in his life!)
While we're on the subject, I came accross a few very good quality stockings which looked (by the type of stitch) to have been machined in the traditional way in a large old department store in Dublin a few years ago, (no, they were not made by Aristoc). I can't remember the brand, or if they are still available, but if I see them again, i'll post up the brand.keep up the good work
Proper ApparelThe main problem with the Pit is the decline in standards which is evident everywhere. Were I to compose this message entirely in Latin, it is unlikely that more than a small number even of your distinguished readers would be able to comprehend it. However, nowhere is the decline more apparent than in the understanding and treatment of the wearing of proper apparel. Few people appear to understand the importance of correct dress. A well dressed lady like an attractive building requires proper foundations. Through ignorance, weakness or their own deliberate fault, many "wimmin" of the Pit do not begin to know of the variety of proper foundations or the pleasure which such foundations can give to the wearer or to any lucky beholder.
Stays, waspies, basques, girdles, directoire knickers, slips, brassieres and suspender belts are thought old fashioned and irrelevant. They are, of course, nothing of the sort. As an experienced observer of the feminine world, it is only too easy to spot a lady who is properly attired. She will be quiet, controlled, demure but effective. She will look and feel in control of any situation. If she wears a skirt which allows the buttons of her suspenders to show through, she will know but be entirely unconcerned by the knowledge. She may even enjoy a small amount of pleasure when catching the eye of the person who is staring for no particular purpose at her upper thigh. Such an on-looker will inevitably wonder at the precise nature of the lady's under-garments but the lady will have the pleasure of knowing that the on-looker's curiosity will remain un-satisfied. Your excellent discussion has centred, entirely understandably, on the immediately pre-eclipse period of the 1950s. There are many delights to be found from earlier periods. A truly feminine lady will enjoy the experience of wearing stays from the 1890s or 1900s. Bongo Fenwicks now sells stays which are not dissimilar to those then used. Proper lacing requires a little discipline and, preferably, an assistant. The lady should raise her arms when her stays are being fitted. It was to facilitate this procedure that corset yards were once an essential article of furniture in a lady's dressing room. The lacing should be carried out systematically starting from the top. When complete the wearer will discover that her carriage is erect. It is impossible to lack femininity when well laced.
I have the honour to be, Madam, your faithful and humble servant,
But of course, ladies should not know Latin really, otherwise they would be able to read all the rude bits in your books, and that would never do.
Stockings and ShoesAn often neglected detail when it comes to lovely stockings is the importance of matching shoes (or to my preference mostly: the absenceof shoes). Take it into consideration.
STOCKING LENGTHSStocking tops should come 3/4 of the way up the thigh, one reason is for comfort and the second reason is for asethetics. Short stocking with loooong garters are very uncomfortable and chilly, if the weather is cold. Also the stockings will stay "bag-free" at the knee is the stocking top is higher up the thigh. If you wear the proper length skirt, and especially if it has a slit up the front, stocking tops 3/4 of the way up your thigh is verrrrrrry alluring. I've worn full-fashioned stockings for 25 years and wouldn't wear anything else.
Thigh-HighsWell, hello my precious pettes! How are you all over here? I have aquestion for you nylon afficionados...what do you think of thigh-highs? Personally, I find them extremely attractive and sensual, especially thepretty ones with the lace tops. They release me from the cage of pantyhose,and the stretch band at the top gives me a tug as I walk, much as I suppose agood garter belt does, reminding me that I am wearing that most femininegarment...stockings! I realize that they are a product of the Pit,but...they feel so sensual, and they look so attractive when a pette, clad ina pair of high cut nylon briefs, a bra with a modest bit of support (andmaybe just a tad of padding!), and a pair of high heels, of course, looks atherself in the mirror. Not to mention what happens when a girl has a chanceto see another pette dressed, or, rather, undressed, like this. And theyhave the same potential as real nylons to demarcate that creamy, white innerthigh from the nylon clad leg if a pette, accidentally, of course, crossesher legs somewhat carelessly. As you can tell, I am rather fond of them, onmyself and others, and I would really like your opinion. Please say thatthey will be acceptable in the new 1950's!
Oh, yes! The title of the page says "Coffee Louge" instead of Lounge. It always looks kind of odd on my bookmark page!
We've mended the louge, but what are thigh highs? Perhaps they are what Aristasians call self-gartered stockings (a garter in these parts is not a suspender but a circular elastic, often decorative, wich holdes the stockings up by pressure rather than suspension - so a self-gartered stocking is - well - a stocking with a garter built in.
If that is what thigh highs are, then the answer is that they are not considered the very best and finest of all hosiery by the highest fashion authorities, but they are sometimes worn and are certainly not considered in the same bracket as the dreaded p-h.
Let's All TryHopefully more and more ladies will start to wear the sensuous stockingsof the Fifties.Just to see a pair of full fashioned stockings on a nicepair of legs makes mine and 1000 others day. Lets all try to bring backthe glamour and allure of the fifties.
We're certainly trying!
Bare skin above stocking tops!! I cruised upon this page and I had to comment. I don't consider myselfa voyuer, however I'm totaly taken over when I notice a lady that iswearing gartered stockings and heels. When a lady is sitting or movingaround and she exposes a glimps of bare skin above a stocking top Ibecome entranced with this treat. I like it when I have to work or waitfor that special moment of bliss. I've always felt that ladies who havegreat legs and are proud of them should wear stockings and garterbelts. I prefer dresses with slits up the sides and longer beige, brown, nude,taupe or gray stockings. Black and white stocking are far to common andI always felt that the formentioned colors are a lot subtler. Iespecially like a sheer RHT Full fashioned stocking. I can usually tellwhen a lady is wearing them by the small wrinkles at the toe. That is adead givaway and always puts me on red alert.
The way the garter clasp is attached to the stocking ia also veryimportant. The garter strap should be short enough that the welt of thestocking is not wrinkled but all neat, flat and not bunched up andconnected to the stocking in the unreinforced part of the stocking welt.It is not very often that I run across a very classy lady that wearsstockings, garterbelts and heels, but when I do I'm very appreciative ofthe fact that she goes to great lengths to be proud of her feminity. Most men are not appreciative of that fact and most don't care.I do and I thank all the ladies that put on a fine show.
We always thought the wrinkle was more noticeable at the ankle, and just behind the knee
The Magic of LingerieMatthilde, you have hit upon something that I am afraid too many women take for granted -- the intensely rewarding everyday sensual experiences that come with just being a woman.
The hushed whisper of smooth nylon when one crosses her legs, the texture of lace on silky skin, the smell of perfume drifting up from one's firmly corseted torso, the taste of a long smooth cigarette in holder (whether it is lit or not), that utterly feminine, mischievous feeling. Too often I forget to revel in it.
This site has renewed my commitment to experience every glorious moment. Do you know of any other similarly-inspired websites?
Susan is commenting on the delightful illustrated essay The Magic of Lingerie at Femmeworld. As for other sites, well, here is one, and have you tried Aphrodite?
Brunette Coffee Lounge EtiquetteBlondes, Indeed! I retort, Brunettes! I do not think that was a very droll exchange, the one Miss Barbara related over in the Aphrodite Cocktail Bar, about the stunning brunette ordering coffee, please, without cream. Though I admit it is the very first hint that hot beverages, not just stockings, suspenders and discussions of their relative lengths (along with edifying riskay illustrative pictures), are on the Coffee Lounge table d'hote.
When a blonde orders a glass of milk, (a blonde needs to drink at least quart of milk a day, I have heard), does she request milk without Bosco? No, of course not. Well, I know that old brunette ploy of ordering coffee without cream, its to confuse we poor blonde waitresses and make us blush and stammer and let down our guards and make us laughingstockings for their brunettish enjoyment! I think that stunning brunette in the joke should have just asked for plain black coffee, please.
And, oh, yes, by the way, that succulent pette with the tennis racquet, (surely an innocent, white-limbed blonde if I ever saw one),why, what ever does she intend to do with it? She is in the middle of the countryside, not exakly garbed in regulation tennis costume (nor tennis shoes, either), no tennis court in sight, though just about everything else is. In sight, I mean. Dropped there by alien space pettes after a dizzy spin in their flying saucer, no doubt.
She looks as if she has just awakened from an induced stupor of sorts and is wondering how that racquet came to be in her hand and is as yet not quite fully aware that she is being photographed as a living, um, Archetype for an erudite disquisition on the golden mean of suspender-to-stocking length and the far-from-unpleasing effect of swagged true, reinforced welts, to be ogled by millions of hungry brunettes via Elektraspace. The poor, sweet, innocent dear! I see the fine hand of brunettes at work once again. Anything for a pinup, right? I am shocked, simply shocked!
ARIADNE, Aphrodite Cocktail Bar waitress-of-late, La Blondissima.
For the puzzled among you (and we shouldn't be surprised) this letter refers to one posted recently in the Cocktail Bar and, of course to our photo-essay on the length of stockings where you will find the famous girl with the tennis raquet inadvertantly demonstrating her method of suspending (or gartering) her nylons. The tennis racquet, we confess, is a shade puzzling, but we believe the young blonde was on a picnic, having brought her racquet for an impromptu game of French cricket or some such. She fell asleep, and as you see her has just woken up, her friends appearing to have deserted her (but actually playing hide and seek. She will discover one of them in a moment). A light gust of wind caught her in mid-yawn, lifting her delightful skirt and petticoats with the result you observe. Fortunately, or unfortunately perhaps, one of her concealed friends had her Box Brownie with her and could not resist the opportunity for a heaven-sent snap. So you see, according to Occam's razor, such hypotheses as flying saucers or the Fourth Dimension are absolutely not needed to explain this quite everyday picture. And we are sure there is no real reason to be shocked. The blonde herself giggled like anything when she saw it.
Length of Nylons - and GirdlesThank you for your personal reply to my comments. I have read yourresultant essay.I particularly liked the photo of the girl holding the tennis raquet. Nowthat is what I call an ideal length for her nylons. It was also interestingto note that she had arranged to fasten her rear suspender as far round tothe back as possible. Very nice.
Perhaps you can clarify one point. Are the girdles that you show and sell ofa genuine 1960's style? I certainly do not remember wearing a boned girdleor even a boned suspenderbelt in the early 60's. My "Sunday best" or perhapsI should say my "Saturday night going out best" was always a Little X orequivalent.
Our Satin-Panel Girdle is a style that has been made without a break since the 1960s, though it certainly differs from the lighter roll-on types popular at the same period. We hope to stock these at a later date.
Support, Restraint and StimulationI would just like to say that I find the evidence of ladies undergarments showing through their tight outergarments is an instant, rapacious stimulant to my libido.
First of all, imagining what lies beneath those layers of discreet coverage leads one to complete and utter distraction. Then, understanding the delicious paradox of women's accoutrements designed for both support and restraint brings to mind all that is uniquely feminine and private.
That's my contribution.
The Length of A Girl's NylonsThis letter does not appear here, as the answer to it takes the form of a fascinating photographic essay. Click here to find it (you must have a browser capable of viewing jpegs - such as Netscape).
Miss Katherine's Girdle Debut Girls: I must tell you all this wonderful secret - I am in the middle of my first full day EVER of wearing a girdle and real stockings with garters, and it feels marvelous! At first I was hesitant - never in my life have I worn so many separate under- things as I am at this moment. But all my fears were allayed within a few hours, because it started to feel like I'd always worn such things.
There was one moment, however, when the entire scheme almost fell apart. I was walking towards the building where I had to attend a meeting, and felt the need to visit the ladies' room. As I walked, I thought, "Now how does one....?" Because, you see, I intended something more involved than powdering my nose. Honestly, as I walked along, I really couldn't visualize how I was to get myself correctly divested of those many underthings and situated to let nature take her course. The walk lasted about 10 minutes, all of which were taken up with thinking about how to work it out. The problem was that the garments underneath my dress were not familiar to me - I couldn't easily visualize what had to happen in order for me to achieve my goal. "Does one," I pondered, "have to unsnap the suspenders holding up the stockings?" The girdle I have is not one that comes equipped with suspenders, so I am wearing a separate garter belt. "Does that come down as well?" I wondered.
Oh girls do forgive me for discussing such delicate matters, even in such a place as this! Let me reassure you, before I succumb to a proper brunette-style blush, that upon reaching the ladies' and securely fastening the latch on the door, all become clear to me, as of course I should have known it would. After all, I don't imagine all those Aristasian ladies walk around in perpetual worry that they won't be able to manage life's simple functions.
Gosh! I suppose these things could be puzzling when one is unfamiliar with them, but actually it's all very easy, as you have discovered
The Zenith of FemininityI'm a tall, slender, Danish woman in my mid 30s, just about to leave Switzerland, where I have been living for the last two years. Some of the writing on your server seems to hint at a slight "aversion" against modern academics, whose "critical" prejudices appearently forbids a deeper understanding of your concept of true femininity. Let me then tell you right away: In me you will, at the same time, find a full blown academic (and a professional theatre director too) and a full blown - but also, alas, suffering - femininity.
This suffering relates, among other things, to the fact that I am surrounded by this hugh mass of massive, phallocratic maleness, of which the women seem even more ridicously possesed than the males.
Well, I am not, and I am strongly in favor of your ways of expressing your femininity. The nylon stocking is one of God's greatest gifts to women (and I don' t say it's blasphemic not to wear them, but it's pretty close to blasphemy). The same goes for these other marvellous items that serve to perfect the perfection of the female creature. I completely fail to see the act of supression in wearing garters and bras, and I do not percieve what is hostile to freedom in lipstic and nailpolish - what I see is nothing but the unfoldment of femininity to its ultimate point. And in our culture the zenith of femininity was certainly reached in the period from the late 20's to the late 50's - just like the zenit of music was reached during the 200 years from Bach to Mahler in Germany - just like the zenit of painting was reached in the 15th century in Italy - just as the zenith of drama was reached in Elizabethean England.
It's a strange fact that the unsurpassable and archetypical perfection is always brought into the world in a limited period. This fact holds true no matter what branch of culture you look into. So therefore, of couse, you see all knowers of music returning to Bach and all knowers of drama returning to Shakespeare - and all women endowed with the sense of knowing true femininity returning to the 50's. The femininity brought forward in this period is undenieably as great a cultural achivement than is "The Tempest" or "Die Kunst der Fuge"! As a work of culture he nylon stocking equals Mona Lisa! Why? Well, for obvious reasons she couldn't wear them - but does anyone doubt that she would if she could!!
We entirely agree with you, though, to follow out your analogy we must recall that discerning people all over the world still listen to music from the Bach-to-Mahler period while late-20th-century "serious" music can scarcely find an audience. Similarly, while the traditional fully-fashioned stocking belongs, in a sense, to a "period", it can never be bettered, and discerning ladies are turning back to this form of hose and the dress that goes with it as the unsurpassable best.
The plays of Shakespeare fell into a certain eclipse after his death, being "superseded" by newer writers and newer literary fashions. Most of these are now forgotten and all of them rank below Shakespeare. Shakespeare is performed everywhere in the world as the unsurpassable best.
Similarly, fully-fashoned stockings - and the various style of dress that may go with them - have suffered a certain Eclipse but are now coming to be recognised as the unsurpassable best in their field and are being sought out by discerning ladies everywhere
Yes, true fully-fashioned stockings are difficult to get, but not now you have come to New Lady. Just click here to find all the fully-fashioned nylons you want. Never be caught without them.
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